Jump to content
Excelsior Forums
OlegNCher

Oberon Visual Component Library for XDS

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

I'm a maintainer of project OPCL. It's Enhanced OP2 Compiler and Linker works under Win32 console.

It's based on ETH Oberon PlugIn 2.5 sources. Links:

Version control: https://github.com/Oleg-N-Cher/OPCL

Hosting: https://sourceforge.net/projects/opcl

Forum: http://forum.oberoncore.ru/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2982

We have started to port Light VCL from Delphi/FPC to Active Oberon for this compiler. Are here people interested in continuation of this work to having good completed instrument for developing desktop GUI, based on Oberon? Is Excelsior interested to finance our work to have OVCL version for XDS ?

http://zx.oberon2.ru/ovcl.htm

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No.

Then, what is technology that you propose in XDS to developing GUI applications for Win32? WinAPI only?

Eh, easy development of GUI apps is unsolved problem in XDS-x86. And I think it does not promote the growing to popularity of the product, in spite of its perfect code optimization.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then, what is technology that you propose in XDS to developing GUI applications for Win32? WinAPI only?

Yes.

Eh, easy development of GUI apps is unsolved problem in XDS-x86.

Yes. The best attempt to solve this problem was Amadeus-3. It did not take off the ground.

And I think it does not promote the growing to popularity of the product, in spite of its perfect code optimization.

You are perfectly correct. But why do you think we are interested in investing in the growth of the popularity of XDS?

Problem is, there is no market for Modula-2/Oberon-2, and we are not in a position to create it. But we like the languages and have some good connections in their communities. That is why we set XDS free instead of dropping it altogether.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But why do you think we are interested in investing in the growth of the popularity of XDS?

Problem is, there is no market for Modula-2/Oberon-2, and we are not in a position to create it. But we like the languages and have some good connections in their communities. That is why we set XDS free instead of dropping it altogether.

I think it is your product, your child. Why I must to think something else? :)

Yes, you're right. But you developed the product for profit and spreading, isn't it?

The main influence has one who forms needs and directions of the mass software and hardware consumption. Its are not always the best solutions, but people want to sell its. It's a war.

You studied market and you certainly understand: the mass demand for good Oberon compilers still not ready and need to be formed. You have undertaken the good step: to share the XDS for free, for creation of such demand at the moment. But it is not enough.

I personally should like to see in XDS-compiler 32-bit INTEGER (in Oberon-2) and full support of 64-bit arithmetic, as well as the best support of unicode (2-byte character type, as minimum, to not to work with unicode chars over integers). Presently we can certain to say there are two dialects of Oberon which possible to call dominants: its are Active Oberon and Component Pascal. With suitable and economical facilities which its give, the clean Oberon-2 language looks less attractive for practical development. But this is not so important.

I heard from Alex Iljin that he has a list of unfixed XDS bugs. The bugs of code generation. Its are present both in 2.51 release, and in new beta too. And here this is already seriously.

I know Alex Iljin. He is a co-author and developer of Amadeus-3, the responsible and reliable developer.

I will not ask you to open the sources of XDS. This is your business and your commercial prospects. But I ask you to share the sources to Alex Iljin to fix the bugs found by him in process of Amadeus-3 developing. Probably, he is exactly that person, who can give the push for the further improvement of XDS.

This is for future of XDS, its fate and perspectives.

Regardless of your decisions, thank you for your work.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes. The best attempt to solve this problem was Amadeus-3. It did not take off the ground.

I'm not sure what you mean by "didn't take off the ground". The Amadeus-3 library is currently being used in several commercial projects by its author, Stefan Metzeler (see project list here: http://oberoncore.ru/wiki/применения#amadeus_it_solutions ). A number of developer licences were sold during the 20+ years of the library existence. I bought a licence for myself and created some commercial projects based on it, as well as worked for Stefan full time for over 3 years (until April 2011) improving the library and adding new features. Sure, it is not widely known in the industry, but I wouldn't say it didn't take off the ground at all. It is, in fact, in a successful flight.

I heard from Alex Iljin that he has a list of unfixed XDS bugs. The bugs of code generation. Its are present both in 2.51 release, and in new beta too. And here this is already seriously.

I know Alex Iljin. He is a co-author and developer of Amadeus-3, the responsible and reliable developer.

I will not ask you to open the sources of XDS. This is your business and your commercial prospects. But I ask you to share the sources to Alex Iljin to fix the bugs found by him in process of Amadeus-3 developing. Probably, he is exactly that person, who can give the push for the further improvement of XDS.

Being the Alex Iljin in question, I confirm that I do have a list of XDS compiler bugs, including some nasty ones in code generator. I have created minimal projects that reproduce the bugs on fresh installs of XDS (for Windows), but I didn't have enough time to publish the information yet. Some of the bugs were reported by me on this forum and via support email, but I got no answers, not even a receipt confirmation.

If Excelsior would agree to provide the sources I can try and fix those bugs (I do have some experience with compiler development). I'm ready to sign any kind of NDAs and can even visit your headquarters for the occasion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems you guys need a reality check.

First, when XDS sales dropped to zero - there had been literally no sales for about a year - we had two options:

  • Dtop the product altogether, as we did with another failed product
  • Release it as freeware with no obligations on support and/or further development

We opted for the latter.

Second, Excelsior is a commercial company. We have a selling product that has many more paying customers than XDS ever had. We have clients paying us for software engineering services. We also mentor interns and teach a course on compiler construction at the local Uni. All this leaves very little room to work on a product put aside many years ago.

Finally, the few remaining employees that worked on XDS back in the 1990s now have families, other projects, and other interests. Even when they have spare time, they are not necessarily willing to spend it on XDS.

You are nearly a couple of decades late. Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what you mean by "didn't take off the ground".

I mean very specific thing: to the best of my knowledge, the author was never able to live off the sales of that product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Finally, the few remaining employees that worked on XDS back in the 1990s now have families, other projects, and other interests. Even when they have spare time, they are not necessarily willing to spend it on XDS.

You are nearly a couple of decades late. Sorry.

Fine, but now I'm offering my volunteer help fixing those bugs. Is there any room for discussion?

You use the compiler internally, don't you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fine, but now I'm offering my volunteer help fixing those bugs. Is there any room for discussion?

Not at the moment.

You use the compiler internally, don't you?

Yes, we do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×