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shashaank

Jet for Mobile iOS

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Hi

I read here a long time back

http://rusbase.com/news/author/benhopkins/excelsior-siberian-software-success-story/

That Excelsior is trying to do for java what Xamarin did for .net

I am sure you guys must be knowing about Robovm

http://www.robovm.org/

It is doing fairly well.

They compile java to native ios code. (the word vm is a misnomer)

The performance of robovm compared to that of oracle's is that robovm is twice as slow.

Combine robovm and excelsior and I see something good out there.

Objective C developers are high in demand, low in supply.

Good objective C developers are still a bit tough to find.

Having your code in 2-3 different languages is another pain point.

Probably excelisor could acquire robovm.

Another avenue is this direction is javascript to native.

A lot of development is happening here.

Java8 is comming with Nashron, to run javascript with full jvm optimization.

Webapp developers are faced with problem that front end code is in javascript and backend is in java/.net/php etc.

Node.js solved this problem allowing rapid prototyping and all code in 1 single language.

Javascript developers are easy to find. People compare node.js with scala and lift.

Scala developers are tough to find, and finding skillful ones even tougher.

There is phonegap which is compiling javascript to native mobile phone apps.

Not only that, but also compile javascript to apps for chromium os and firefox os.

Java ---to--> iOs

JavaScript ---to---> Native

I think these two things are hot right now.

What do you guys think?

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Java ---to--> iOs

We are aware of this opportunity, thank you.

JavaScript ---to---> Native

Makes little sense: due to dynamic typing of JavaScript, performance can be improved only via dynamic optimization.

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We are aware of this opportunity, thank you.

Makes little sense: due to dynamic typing of JavaScript, performance can be improved only via dynamic optimization.

Please do consider some kind of collaboration (or acquisition) with robovm.

Robovm would greatly benefit with the kind of optimizations Jet has.

It will be good Excelsior and java community.

Excelsior would get access to the user base of robovm which they have already created.

I hope I did not intrude too much.

I am just hoping for the best.

I hope you can forward this suggestion to Excelsior senior management.

Thanks

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Please do consider some kind of collaboration (or acquisition) with robovm.

Robovm would greatly benefit with the kind of optimizations Jet has.

It will be good Excelsior and java community.

Excelsior would get access to the user base of robovm which they have already created.

I hope I did not intrude too much.

I am just hoping for the best.

I hope you can forward this suggestion to Excelsior senior management.

Thanks

Members of Excelsior senior management not only read this forum, but also post replies.

Excelsior is an Oracle Java licensee, hence our solution would have to be Java SE compliant, whereas the RoboVM author had chosen to use the Android standard library, so as to aid portability between iOS and Android.

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Members of Excelsior senior management not only read this forum, but also post replies.

Excelsior is an Oracle Java licensee, hence our solution would have to be Java SE compliant, whereas the RoboVM author had chosen to use the Android standard library, so as to aid portability between iOS and Android.

Does having a Oracle Java license prohibit from making a parallel product which just support Android's Java?

People design apps specifically for mobile.

People develop for android, and being able to port that code to iOS would mean coding only once.

Being able to port desktop app to iOS is something I doubt if I would ever be interested in doing.

Mainly because the way desktop apps are designed and the way mobile apps are designed is very different.

Even if the entire desktop app is ported, the UI would require a redesign.

Could you please explain what exactly is (or was) Excelisor planning for iOS mobile platform ?

If nothing, you guys should consider taking a stake in robovm and do somekind of collaboration.

If that market catches up you help them scale by providing excelsior's advanced technology, whereas they would be providing Excelisor with a new market.

Android to native iOS must be taken seriously, this is my sincere advice.

Thanks

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Does having a Oracle Java license prohibit from making a parallel product which just support Android's Java?

Not the license per se, but the open legal dispute between Google and Oracle over Java.

People design apps specifically for mobile.

People develop for android, and being able to port that code to iOS would mean coding only once.

Being able to port desktop app to iOS is something I doubt if I would ever be interested in doing.

Mainly because the way desktop apps are designed and the way mobile apps are designed is very different.

Even if the entire desktop app is ported, the UI would require a redesign.

Desktop and mobile are converging. Is Surface Pro 3 a desktop or mobile device?

And UI redesign is required in the case of RoboVM as well. An Android app won't look native on iOS.

Could you please explain what exactly is (or was) Excelisor planning for iOS mobile platform ?

We will surely do that when/if time comes.

If nothing, you guys should consider taking a stake in robovm and do somekind of collaboration.

If that market catches up you help them scale by providing excelsior's advanced technology, whereas they would be providing Excelisor with a new market.

Android to native iOS must be taken seriously, this is my sincere advice.

Thank you very much for sharing your opinion and advice.

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And UI redesign is required in the case of RoboVM as well. An Android app won't look native on iOS.

Thank you :) For taking my suggestions positively.

I must apologize for stretching this discussion a bit more, but

there one point I must emphasize as it really important.

The problem isn't porting desktop apps to iphone.

The problem is porting Android apps to iphone.

Mobile app market is a new market.

It is not based on a legacy of code from desktop era.

It is based on new code written in new platform.

The problem is not porting desktop legacy code to iphone,

that is a much smaller market

compared to the market of porting android apps to iphone.

Indeed even after porting the android app, the UI has to be re-done.

iOS ui can be done in java using a shim layer which robo vm provider.

It works it gives 50% the kind of speed JVM would.

Put Excelsior and I can see >100% performance on iphone (compared to android's dalvik vm.)

For now (I am not talking about future) it is android vs iphone.

In future, the demand might be more complex as the number of devices and plaforms as increasing.

In that kind of scenario the javascript based non-native app might take some lead.

Like Mozilla's Firefox OS, I think it supports javascript based apps only, and doesn't

rely too much on native code as such.

So let us not go into that direction.

Being able to run the same code (non-UI part of code) on android, iphone & let us say windows.

That is something hot, but will not remain so for long.

In terms of portability javascript is proving to be highly more portable than java.

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Mobile app market is a new market.

It is not based on a legacy of code from desktop era.

It is based on new code written in new platform.

The problem is not porting desktop legacy code to iphone,

that is a much smaller market

compared to the market of porting android apps to iphone.

When you say "much smaller market", are you comparing by the potential number of users or by potential revenues and profits?

If the latter, do you have solid market data to support your opinion?

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When you say "much smaller market", are you comparing by the potential number of users or by potential revenues and profits?

If the latter, do you have solid market data to support your opinion?

My comment on market size is based on number of users.

My perception is based on what I have been hearing and reading lately.

I have never in my life come across a blog/article talking about

porting a desktop app to mobile.

Please try google searching these 2 topics and compare the interest in the two domains.

(1) port desktop app to mobile

(2) port android app to iphone

The maximum interest has been on

(1) Rapid prototyping to validate the idea first before jumping into a full fledged product

(2) Porting the prototype or a finished app, to different devices before a fully native version is made

The mobile app domain is majorly dominated by startups, who have a very different lifecycle.

They try to follow lean principles as much as possible.

The revenue per license seems to be a lot lesser.

Refer : https://build.phonegap.com/plans

Excelisor could offer a cloud based solution in which if the user cannot afford

a premium license of excelisor, he can create a ticket and upload his code,

and excelisor would compile it and allow him to download the compiled binaries.

The user could do all the testing using trial version of excelsior running

on his machine. The price for compiling might be something very small.

It could be per job basis or a monthly subscription.

This model could work for both desktop and mobile apps.

Phone gap is doing something similar.

Again, revenue per user would be small, but the audience would be bigger.

I cannot say exactly how profitable this might turn out to be.

For someone doing it from scratch like robovm is getting good donations.

People want it to survive.

If someone can do it from zero in about an year, I think excelisor

with it's advanced compiler technology (which I think is a century ahead of competitors)

can do it even better and with lesser effort.

Another model is Xamarin's price model

https://store.xamarin.com/

It starts from free and goes to $2000.

Excelsior's premium license is also $3000.

It seems to be comparable.

Apps made using phonegap are so slow that sometimes they are rejected by apple's app store. Imagine giving these users fully optimized native apps, then that $2000 or whatever they are paying would be more justified.

The basic pricing model which excelsior has could be mixed

with a cloud based compiling solution something like what phonegap offers. This mixture would open new sources of revenue, increase awareness about excelsior.

The best way would be to do a press release or some announcement on this,

see the response that people have. What I am saying is my opinion, I am just suggesting ways using which excelsior can make it's way in the mobile market.

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What I am saying is my opinion, I am just suggesting ways using which excelsior can make it's way in the mobile market.

Thank you very much for sharing your opinion, shashaank. You may wish to subscribe to our mailing list or RSS feed to make sure you will receive any updates on this subject matter that we may issue.

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